Talk: S3Ld0m

Welcome to the Unterzee!

Hello, S3Ld0m, and welcome to the Sunless Sea Wiki! Thank you for your contributions, and I hope you'll stay with us and make many more.

Some links you may find useful:

• Recent changes lets you see what other people are editing currently and where you can help.
• If you haven't already, create a user page about yourself. If you do, we'll be able to know you better as a member of our community.
• If you have questions, post a message on my talk page. I hope you'll enjoy editing here and look forward to working with you!

Tagaziel (talk) 15:48, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Sortable tables

Hey there.

Yep, they are. Simply add sortable to the class heading. I've added one to Hunter's Keep's first table already (bloody fine work on the article, by the way). It should look like:

{| class="ss-table sortable"

There's a minor bug that causes the arrows to appear black on a black background. I've asked the CSS wizards to fix it, since I'm missing something.

If you need anything else, and especially if you have suggestions as to how to improve the wiki (infoboxes to add, CSS modifications to do, images to try and rip from the game etc.), then please don't hesitate to post them on my talkpage. That's what I'm here for. :) Tagaziel (talk) 19:05, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

The arrows are fixed and should appear normally. :D Tagaziel (talk) 19:24, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the table and for the compliment - I'm trying to get as much interactions as possible but sailing from place to place takes time! :) The table will come handy for item location and price as I'm starting to have all ports pages open to check what is where! :D Thanks again! --S3Ld0m (talk) 20:14, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

I'll also go through the files and upload images for the individual islands as I find them. Unity is scary in terms of file organisation, but not scary enough, I say! 77.20.122.240 23:59, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Promotions!

Hey S3Ld0m, after some deliberation, I decided to promote you and KorGgenT to administrator, to provide you with tools that will help you edit better (and so that in case someone spams, you can easily delete the spam and ban them). Tagaziel (talk) 09:19, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Tagaziel! I'll do my best! :) --S3Ld0m (talk) 11:41, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Holy Zee

You're terrifying when you're in your element. Terrifying and inspiring. ;)

I've been swamped with work a bit recently and I'm working to get back into the swing of things. I'm working on a template to show all the ship systems, though it needs a bit of work. I'll have to find and edit an image to place in the center field and make it look alright. What do you think? Tagaziel (talk) 16:16, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

I think its a great idea! I've organized the Ship equipment so it's easier to fill up your template. What about this image in the center? I don't have any photshop skills so that's the best I can come up with! :) S3Ld0m (talk) 16:38, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Images

Hey S, I switched the image on the welcome template, since the border looks not all that great without the infobox or table framing.

One request: Could you ensure that the images are in PNGs, particularly the smaller and simpler ones? JPGs are artifacting and tend tend to be displayed in lower qualities on certain browsers. Just a small request for the future. :) Tagaziel (talk) 07:31, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Ok, sure! I just switched since I've been placing every image on this wiki with the frame. About the PNG's, I'm using the image optimizer RIOT in order to get the most quality per size for each image. Sometimes the program recommends JPG but I'll force to PNG then, no problem! :)

Do you want me to switch the images back to PNG? It might take awhile but it can be done. -- S3Ld0m (talk) 10:19, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Only if you have the time to do it. For now, it's not a major priority, the images look good. I just have a bit of a PNG obsession, ever since I wondered why The Vault's 3500x1000 panoramas I was doing artifact so much. :) Tagaziel (talk) 13:09, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

You do realize that artifacting on JPG's are avoidable by using the maximum quality setting (12)? PNG's are fantastic for icons and images with few colours. But for detailed drawings and photos nothing beats JPG. At the highest quality JPG's cause no visible artifacting. Just thought I'd inform you on the matter, a lot of people enjoy saving stuff in PNG because they don't understand the strength and weaknesses of the formats, nor that JPG actually has a quality setting. PNG's have long since become the standard here as seen from the time this conversation took place, not suggesting a change ;) Dagdgg (talk) 19:40, 28 February 2015 (GMT +1)

Text colour and formats

Excellent idea! We've been using them since day one, but having a nice standardized format would do us wonders! Tagaziel (talk) 20:31, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Ok, glad to hear! :) S3Ld0m (talk) 21:51, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Hey S3ld0m

Sorry for my recent absence, but work has pulled me away so hard it's not even funny. Did I mention that thanks largely to your work the Wiki has been named the Official Sunless Sea Wiki? :) Tagaziel (talk) 22:32, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Just tell me what you need. I've been poking around the innards of the game and I don't seem to be able to find the localization file. Maybe I'll have to dig some more, would certainly make the job easier (as long as we stick to the 250 limit :)). Tagaziel (talk) 09:51, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Speaking of innards: Figured out how to reveal the map.Tagaziel (talk) 11:05, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

What do you think of the new skin elements? The old background was drab. :) Tagaziel (talk) 13:06, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the greeting

Hey there, thanks for the greeting, this is my first time contributing to a wiki, however I have played Sunless Sea very thoroughly and felt that I had info that I could help to contribute to the community, so I am doing my best to learn from reverse engineering the way existing pages are written, however there is much I still do not know how to do, so I apologize if I make any mistakes in formatting or style of my additions. If you have any advice or recommendations for me on creating pages or learning how to be a better contributer I would be happy to hear them. Also if you know how I could change my name from MFCUserblahblahblah that would be great. My preferred handle is Necraa.

A Request

I appreciate the tables and advice you gave, I did find one important thing missing that I can provide a lot of information on but sadly do not yet have the know how to make myself and that is the Port Cecil page needs to be expanded to cover the Principles of Coral quest, which I noticed is entirely absent, I have all the info of how to do the quest, but don't yet have the understanding to make such a massive change and creation yet myself. I think that would be an incredibly valuable addition that would help people using the wiki. Thanks a bunch for the help and time taken to explain things to me.

Greetings, returned

Hi, thanks for the welcome (and for your patience with my overenthusiastic elephanting!). Does Gamepedia have any tools for displaying/indexing redlinks on a wiki-wide basis? Sinegenere (talk) 20:31, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Testing

Hey Seldom, Tagz here. I've checked with the powers-that-be and it seems to be an issue with one part of the server architecture. Oddly, I can use third party wiki browsing software just fine (AWB, or Auto WikiBrowser). It only goes sideways when I use the web browser. Odd, but at least I now have a way to contact you!

By the way, SS gets out of Beta into Release in about three weeks. Pumped? I know I'll be indulging the wikiddiction in me. :) Tagaziel (talk) 14:12, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

This is just a zeebatest. Mind the zeebat not, lest Salt becomes interested. --Salt

Abbey Rock

Hi S3ld0m, you updated Abbey Rock and wiped out a large section of narrative I had added related to the Presbyterate Adventuress. Was there a problem with it? Thanks. --Whikloj (talk) 22:05, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Okay thanks, I thought it was something like that. Cheers! --Whikloj (talk) 15:46, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Sidebar

Hey Sel, any ideas on how to improve the sidebar? I thought about putting links to most important sections under Navigation, including a quick primer (Quick Start) guide on how to survive and make money in the early game, for people who just picked it up. What do you think? Tagaziel (talk) 11:55, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

I've updated it with an initial list of articles. It may need a bit of refining, since it seems random, but I didn't want to flood the sidebar with an excessive number of collapsible sections. Tagaziel (talk) 17:42, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I'll have to fiddle around with it. By the way, decided to promote you to Bureaucrat, so that you can promote people to Admin status as needed. Eliminate the middleman! (me) Tagaziel (talk) 19:16, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Greetings cap'tain

Hey, thanks for the greeting (and sorry for the delay with my answer). I don't have much experience with wikis so if I make a mistake do not hesitate to tell me. As english is not my mothertongue I won't be able to write article, but I'll add informations or edit the page's style when I can. I have some questions :

• Would it be useful/intersting to add the ways to obtain/use an item on the item's page ? (for example where to obtain live specimen and how to use them)
• Is it possible for any user to add pages/images to the wiki ? Or is it reserved for administrators ?
• Are the images extracted directly from the game's files ? Do you need any help with this task ?

Hope I didn't bother you with my questions ! --- Gerardufoin (talk) 21:12, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Infobox updates

I've modified the location infobox to allow for the use of two images, one under the other, as in Aestival. Now we can eat the cake and still have it. :) Tagaziel (talk) 14:11, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

videos

How do you feel about adding video guides to pages where it makes sense?

Kudos from Gamepedia Central

Hey there! I just wanted to stop in and say "Thank you!!" for all of your contributions and other work here on Sunless Sea wiki! I'd seen your efforts, but Tagaziel also mentioned you as being a stand-out editor here. I'd love to hook you up with a little Gamepedia care package (if you'd like one), can you contact me via e-mail with your address and shirt size? CrsBenjamin (talk) 21:55, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you CrsBenjamin! :D And another to Tagaziel, he is really a great guy and wouldn't be here if it wasn't for him! :) I've sent you an e-mail with further details! Glad to help! :) S3Ld0m (talk) 09:50, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Maybe you know how to tackle this?

Hey Seldom, can I pick your brains a bit? I've been trying to figure out how to convert text into a usable worksheet for the past two days to no avail. Here's the problem: I have one, long config file with standardized data entries for each item:

Artifact
{
	Name=DT_Polearm1
	NameID=Base_warrior_weapon,DT_Polearm1
	Icon=dt_2hweapon_1_01,dt_2hweapon_2_01
	LootModel=2hHammer
	EquipmentModel=dt_2hweapon_1_01;dt_2hweapon_2_01
	Type=Weapon
	SubType=TwoHandedSword
	Rarity=normal
	MinLevel=1
	MaxLevel=4
	Value=150
	DamageMin=320
	DamageMax=350
}

Artifact
{
	Name=DT_Polearm2
	NameID=DT_Polearm1,DT_Polearm2
	Icon=dt_2hweapon_2_01,dt_2hweapon_3_01
	LootModel=2hHammer
	EquipmentModel=dt_2hweapon_2_01;dt_2hweapon_3_01
	Type=Weapon
	SubType=TwoHandedSword
	Rarity=normal
	MinLevel=5
	MaxLevel=9
	Value=170
	DamageMin=350
	DamageMax=380
}

I'd like to import each entry side by side so that I can later transpose it and create a CSV for data importing:

Name=DT_Polearm2 NameID=DT_Polearm1,DT_Polearm2 Icon=dt_2hweapon_2_01,dt_2hweapon_3_01 LootModel=2hHammer EquipmentModel=dt_2hweapon_2_01;dt_2hweapon_3_01 Type=Weapon SubType=TwoHandedSword Rarity=normal MinLevel=5 MaxLevel=9 Value=170 DamageMin=350 DamageMax=380

Name=DT_Polearm1 NameID=Base_warrior_weapon,DT_Polearm1 Icon=dt_2hweapon_1_01,dt_2hweapon_2_01 LootModel=2hHammer EquipmentModel=dt_2hweapon_1_01;dt_2hweapon_2_01 Type=Weapon SubType=TwoHandedSword Rarity=normal MinLevel=1 MaxLevel=4 Value=150 DamageMin=320 DamageMax=350

Trouble is, I can't seem to force Libre Calc to OBEY ITS MASTER. It's like the unfinished gorram claymen making a ruckus, except these at least don't destroy much. Except my sanity. I'd rather not eat my wife. Do you know of a way to make it work? Tagaziel (talk) 13:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Tagaziel, I'll look into it and come back to you asap! :) S3Ld0m (talk) 13:19, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Tagaziel, from what I can see, without additional info on how the file looks like, you require some formulas there. The problem with transpose is that it requires an array which can't be done automatically without going into complex formulas. But assuming the information comes in a single row, putting the information side by side is easy. Just create a formula to copy the values below the first "Name=" until it finds "}". Once it does, you just need to filter those out, erase the rest and you get several columns of data. Its easier said than done! :) S3Ld0m (talk) 14:53, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

You know, that inspired me to test something altogether different. I've replaced all the tabs at the beginning of each line with I symbols and the curly brackets with |-. The end result? A very usable table! Which now gives me a headache of a different sort, but it works. Thanks! Tagaziel (talk) 12:43, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Image wiki format

Why do you feel the need to have new filenames for something that uses the exact same image? Just for the sake of it? It makes no sense. The "explored ***" events all use the same compass image, there is no need to give them special filenames just for the sake of fitting the event name when there is literally no difference to them. Not only is it redundant, but you also force people to download the same image over and over again for no reason when they already have it cached under a different filename (if you don't just use the same image with re-direction, which makes just as little sense to do). Dagdgg (talk) 23:33, 2 March 2015 (GMT+1)

I set up a bunch of image redirects initially, but apparently they crash the server somehow. As for the image naming convention, it's so that there's consistency when you're typing. If I have to use, for example [File:SS Story Event The Web of Stone.png|23px] or [File:SS Locations Irem.png|23px] it's a lot quicker than having to go and look up which image was referenced, right click, copy file location, etc, etc. But yeah, in a perfect world, we'd just upload the images folder from the game and set up redirects across the board. S3ld0m knows more. At least gamepedia generates smaller versions of the images.SporksAreGoodForYou (talk) 23:28, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Just as SporksAreGoodForYou said, too many redirects makes the server slow down considerably. In case you haven't noticed, the server is behaving erratically lately. I suspect the amount of redirects being created. Anyway, regarding images, those usually make the server work a bit more and that can always leave to problems. The only solution here is to create a single image and make every event that needs it go directly to it, without redirects. I'm thinking of doing that for the sake of optimisation but for now, we will leave the images with the respective names. This, on the other hand, is useful for keeping track of ids. If a specific id doesn't have an image I can spot it almost immediately through the special pages. Another useful aspect is it helped in the beginning tracking down different ids - when things were more manual! So, yeah Dagdgg, here's the deal: Keep images for now, change later when we start optimising the wiki! :) S3Ld0m (talk) 10:37, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

And another thing, images are categorized now. Making a single image would destroy the category system. It would be necessary to create a new system based on the gaz, normal and small images. Then there's different borders.. You get the idea! :) S3Ld0m (talk) 10:53, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

I completely agree that general items would need different images despite being duplicates because they are spread all over the wiki, meaning there is no quick way of finding out what image they need, making much more sense to use a name-specific image link. "Explored ***" on the other hand is something only ever found in the Empire of Hands, you will find it's image referenced everywhere on every single "explored" event, making it much quicker to just copy paste that file than making individual names and making sure you copy the correct one for all the different named events that share the same image.

I would also like to note that the convenience of typing isn't really there because you only really know if it's a story event, a curiosity, item, quality, etc etc by experience, meaning you might get the name right, but getting the category right when naming it? Eh... not so much. I either copy paste an existing image on the page or go to the link and open the image page referenced on it's page and copy it's name. But that's just the limitations of a wiki and keeping things organized.

As a quick side-note, I'm able to obtain the island graphics, but I can't for the love of me find the icons anywhere in the .assets files, where do you guys pull those from besides screenshots? Dagdgg (talk) 15:34, 3 March 2015 (GMT+1)

Dagdgg I do understand your point of view. In fact, I'm beginning the transition to gaz and small images only, so leave those to me. The image section of the wiki has been always changing. Most of the change was forced from the game itself while others was because of wiki organization. Either way, this method will simplify editing the wiki and the image load process. However, the image names found in the game code aren't always clear, so it will be necessary to check. It won't be an easy task as just switching the name.

Concerning the icons, C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\LocalLow\Failbetter Games\Sunless Sea\images\sn\icons is the way to go! :) S3Ld0m (talk) 16:06, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Hah. Beat me to it! The images live there, and you can reference them from Failbetter Games\Sunless Sea\entities\events_import.json and qualities.json if you need to. As for the naming convention, I've written a couple of scripts which spit out the event and qualities pages based on a single id, and it generates the image names on the fly using a set of rules, so it's easier from that point of view too. but I do understand your concerns about optimisation. SporksAreGoodForYou (talk) 16:19, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, glorious hi-res images. Indeed, the right image for the right thing isn't always that easy, especially not as they get updated and the old ones are left over. I know the unlicensed spiritfage is using the wrong image at least, too bad I finished that run, will have to do the storyline over again to find the right image. Very happy to have access to the images at a useable quality now, thanks once again. Dagdgg (talk) 23:33, 2 March 2015 (GMT+1)

Also, just to add to this discussion, having a 23px image load (say) 5 times into memory to render the page is honestly the least of the problems about optimisation on this site. Gamepedia is one of the worst sites I've ever encountered in terms of optimisation. The ad scripts alone take up to 4s to render, taking up to 50m of memory to do so. Even when the ads aren't flash, it's initialising the plugin, just so it can track the 50 or so flash cookies it uses. Add to that another 35 or so zombie cookies, and 15k instead of 3k in images isn't the dealbreaker. Oh, and don't forget the 100s (sometimes 1000s) of javascript errors and exceptions per page load. Sorry. Rant over. It's just, honestly. A few less images aren't going to change how poorly this site performs, and will just make it harder for people without access to the gamefiles to update stuff, because they have no idea spiritfage should be bottledsoulsmall.pngSporksAreGoodForYou (talk) 18:10, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

That's not really an excuse not to have it optimized, especially not if you consider any potential third-world visitor or people that live in the middle of nowhere that have to pay for each megabyte they use. Redundant image loading is redundant, especially when you have the same image 4-8 times on the same page under different filenames.

People without access to gamefiles to update stuff (which we should just have a section for, telling people about the location of the icons and the existence of UnityAssetsExplorer) don't have a better time with the name of the files having stuff like "quality" "story" "random event" "location" "port" etc etc attached to the beginning of them. It's just as confusing, you have to look up which naming is correct in either case, leading you to click on the link for the item. If it doesn't have a page they wouldn't make one either because they wouldn't necessarily know what kind of category it falls under. It doesn't help that "Stories" and "Circumstances" were merged at some point into "Qualities" leaving all 3 variants in filenames confusing anyone that doesn't know what to use.

Actually, I decided to make such a page right now. Beginners Wiki Guide Dagdgg (talk) 19:25, 3 March 2015 (GMT+1)

8x instead of 1x is an additional 14k per page (the 23px images are ~2k . For comparison, the empire page is a total download of 1.35m. It's a splash in the pond vs a huge saving in utility (the ability to update pages without having to dig in gamefiles, as well as categorising images). But it seems like you're going ahead, so I guess the decision is made.SporksAreGoodForYou (talk) 19:10, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it's a drop in the ocean, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a completely redundant way of doing things. You talk so much about this utility, that it's so much easier the way it is, I still do not understand this argument. With either system I still have to go and look up the link for the file and enter the image to get the correct name. Whether it's getting the classification right, capitals "the" or not "the", does it use the exclamation mark or not? There are tons of variables that makes filenames and linking them a pain in the ass no matter which system you use.

Yes, absolutely, using the name of the event in the name of the file makes it easy to get 90% of the link correct, but you still need that last piece of information that you only obtain by experience or checking the filename. This is no different from the system we're trying to transistion to now, where you can learn from experience that x image is called by x name, but to be sure you will still need to look it up. I personally feel that your concerns about the new system are the exact same concerns that already exists with the current system. Dagdgg (talk) 21:51, 3 March 2015 (GMT+1)

---

Wasn't here so I couldn't participate! :) We're going with the gaz and small image format for now (hopefully forever!). The issues with images have long been on this wiki. I started to upload images in jpg format. Later I had to replace jpg (which you can find some remnants around) for png. Next I went for categories. The game evolved, so did the categories. Trade goods were renamed Cargo - there are lots of trade goods still going around. Stories and Circumstances were merged and me and Sinegenere decided for the name Qualities. There are still Stories and Circumstances running around.. So, long story short.. Images on this wiki are a pain! :) I know you both may be frustrated, I know I am, but its mistakes like these that makes us learn and obtain better solutions in the future.

Oh and Dagdgg, nice of you to create that page. I created a mini tutorial on my user page, if you want some info as well. S3Ld0m (talk) 20:37, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Small image where gaz does not exist I presume? May I also ask why you keep the "gaz" at the end of the name? I feel it would be more natural to name the gazetter-sized images purely by their name, and the small images by their name + small. ex: "Map Small.png" and "Map.png". I can't imagine what a pain in the ass it must have been to have to have all these changes going on with the images all the time, haha.

I will take a look at that. Dagdgg (talk) 21:54, 3 March 2015 (GMT+1)

Gaz and small images are two of three types of images that exist on the icons folder. You got the gaz size, the normal size and the small size. We use gaz for the events and small for the items and qualities. We got not use for the normal ones (and frankly I think the game doesn't either). Gaz should exist for every event. If they don't, report it here. Small images will then get a border that corresponds to that specific image. For instance, Strategic Information will get a green border where Ship Equipment gets a blue. I am keeping the gaz because I'm copy/pasting the names directly from the image files. It would take me longer to select the gaz file and remove the gaz part of the file name for each one. The naming applies for everything, including Officers - which I saw you didn't put the file name. Another note: Qualities and Officers are different things and so are their images. Learning about quality and the Officer image are small and gaz respectively. If you need any help, talk to me! :)

I'm moving this talk page to my own, it is no longer about the Empire of Hands, is it? :) S3Ld0m (talk) 21:10, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Yeah I get that there are 3 different sizes, I just don't understand why you would ever want to upload the small image size and gazetter image size for the same image. Learning about: *officer* still uses the same image of the officer, the difference is just whether or not there is a border. I don't see why you wouldn't just let the wiki downscale the gazetter version for you instead of having two differently sized dupes.

The filenames don't always make that much sense though. The ancient map is just called "map", the unlicensed spiritfage is "bottledsoul", I personally would want the names to be as logical as possible as to what they are used for where possible. (for example the jungle image for Empire of Hands that is used for the islands can't really have a good understandable name because it's used so liberally for different places, whereas the unlicensed spirifage is only really used for the spirifage).

I do understand the time-concern when it comes to the gaz at the end though, but it does personally rub me the wrong way, and it doesn't take that long to remove it. Actually, come to think of it, if your concern is that they are all named that, use Renamer, it's a great tool that allows you to mass-rename files with all sorts of great options. In this case you can just open the whole folder with it and tell it to remove "gaz" and it will automatically remove every instance of "gaz" in all the filenames. Dagdgg (talk) 22:28, 3 March 2015 (GMT+1)

I'm afraid if you start naming the image files you're going backwards in terms of simplicity. The idea here is to make the upload and naming process a lot easier. We get rid of categories - only have small and gaz - and don't need to think of a name when uploading something - use the one already provided. The gaz tool would mean that everytime an update would roll out I would have to do the process again. Don't forget, the users of the wiki are what's important. They don't care what goes behind the scenes. I understand your concern with the names, as they are not easy to find unless you go into the game code. But at this stage, most of the images are already on the wiki and an user who wants to contribute would either screenshot and upload or edit an existing page to see the image file and paste it where it's needed. SporksAreGoodForYou made a raw dump file with the events and the respective filename, which you can find it here. S3Ld0m (talk) 21:40, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

The logic is sound enough. Dagdgg (talk) 22:46, 3 March 2015 (GMT+1)

---

• hah, reset! :P Dagdgg The most annoying thing, really, is when I'm typing help stuff (which is really the useful part of this wiki, since anyone can pick apart the game files). So, for example, if I were doing during [random event], if you have [Terror] above 25, your [Crew] will start to eat each other, which will trigger [some event] and change [quality] to 15, which will trigger [another event] in [London](pretend those are actually links), I could easily add the images as I went, without having to look anything up, because I know what's what, and the file naming convention is easy. e.g. during [File:SS Random Event random event.png|23px] [random event], if you have [File:SS Qualities Terror.png|23px] above 25, ... you get teh idea. I didn't have to look anything up, and while it was slightly cumbersome, it meant I could just get into the flow of writing. Now I have to muck about with alt-tab and lookups and cut and paste, and it's generally just a major pain to do write anything meaningful without it being incredibly burdensome. Take a look at Saviour's Rocks for an example of what I mean. It's really, really painful. SporksAreGoodForYou (talk) 22:33, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Nope, still don't get it. There is nothing that logically tells me that Terror is "quality" whilst supplies is "Items". Those are differences you have to know on your own by experience. The name goes on auto-pilot, the classification doesn't, as such I end up having to look it up with either system anyways. I have been doing all of my edits with copy and paste and 15 different tabs to begin with, this new system stops me from having to have 3 different tabs for the same image because they are named differently. Dagdgg (talk) 02:09, 4 March 2015 (GMT+1)

How can you not get it? Terror is clearly not an item. It's a quality. Supplies are clearly items. Like, that's common sense. If it's something you can hold in your hand (fuel, wine, crate of souls, blue feather) it's an item. If it's a concept (terror, learning about: the carnelian exile, empire of hands: unlicensed spirifage), it's a quality. Iron or Hull are statistics. If that's too nebulous for you, if it's on the hold page, it's an item. Journal page is quality. Up at the top of the screen - statistic. Ship Equipment should be self-explanatory. Story Event vs Random Event is the only slightly tricky area. I feel like you're trolling me now. Unless you don't understand english, I have no idea how it could be clearer. Using the name buried in the game file is not clear *AT ALL*. SporksAreGoodForYou (talk) 06:41, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Because you still need to KNOW that x item is a cargo or curiosity or quality or event or story or this or that. It's not something you can see just by looking at the file. "Terror" does not immediately tell you that it's a quality. "Supplies" does not immediately tell you that it's an item. You have to LEARN which category it belongs to, meaning the rest of us will still have to look up every damned object and copy paste it's file-title to get it right. Everything didn't even transition into the new "quality" categorization, meaning that you can get it right and still get it wrong because it's referenced as "story" instead of "quality".

I understand that it might be frustrating for you, who know what category everything belongs to, to move away from that system, it's very logical once you know the ropes of it and you've learned what is an item and what is a quality and what is a this and that, but for everyone that hasn't spent hours learning that, it makes no difference, and the new system stops the wiki from doing a metric ton of redirects. Dagdgg (talk) 14:42, 4 March 2015 (GMT+1)

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I'm late to the party, but let me weigh in on the format issue: Basing on my experiences with other wikis, I've started using PNG, a lossless format, over JPG because some browsers may have trouble rendering them properly, leading to particularly bad artifacting, even if the file doesn't have them. Plus, given that Sunless Sea is not available in a physical format and the digital distribution weighs at around 650 megabytes, I think it's a safe bet that people who own the game will generally be able to handle the page loading (especially since images scaled down weigh a fraction of what their full size is). Tagaziel (talk) 09:22, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

We're not really discussing JPG vs PNG, but definitely, that can be a problem, but the game files are .PNG's to begin with so there is no problem there. I would like to point out that the game is a one-time download (if you don't update it) wheras the wiki is not, but no, the size of the duplicates isn't the main problem either, it's just that it's very redundant and useless to load up different versions of the exact same image when you can just use one image. The main problem is that the system we're transistioning from uses a heavy amount of redirects which cripples the wiki, with the new system it will just reference the original location without having to go through several redirects when there are several instances of redirected images on one page. Dagdgg (talk) 14:37, 4 March 2015 (GMT+1)